Top 7 Ways Mechanics Rip Off Consumers - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
05/12/2016 at 09:10 • Filed to: None

I spend my time suing manufacturers over defective cars and from time to time I sue a mechanic or two. Along the way I have come across pretty much every way a mechanic can rip off a consumer. Here are my favorites, in podcast form.

The subject of mechanics ripping off consumers has come up here before. I know because every time I write about it, a few of them go nuts and fill the comment sections with vitriol. Usually before they have bothered to read what I wrote.

Previous columns which brought the hate were “ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ,” “ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ?”, and “ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ” Yes, I’ve expanded the list.

Again, I am not saying all mechanics rip off everyone they meet. I am saying that these things happen and you are wise to watch out for them. That’s all. Of course, many mechanics have not read this far and are already filling the comments with their hate. That’s fine. I’ve learned to embrace the hate.

Here’s the audio:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And the video:

The top shot is of a car I saw for sale by the side of the road the other day. Not relevant to the topic in particular but it sure was shiny!

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

DISCUSSION (100)

TheRealBicycleBuck > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:18

Google is amazing. I wanted to know more about the car. I googled “1962 Buick for sale Michigan”. This is the first photo that popped up:

Kinja'd!!!

http://www.thunderbaychryslerjeepdodge.com/used/Buick/196…

SteveLehto > TheRealBicycleBuck
05/12/2016 at 09:19

That’s it. And it’s kind of scary if you think about it.

TheRealBicycleBuck > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:29

Kinja'd!!!

A friend of mine was a diesel mechanic for many years. He finally figured out the best strategy for dealing with drivers who wanted to stand around and talk or offer advice. He would just put his tools down and start chatting with the driver until the driver finally said, “hey, aren’t you going to work on my truck?” My buddy would reply, “I can either work or talk, but I can’t do both. I get paid the same rate either way. If you don’t want to talk, you can find the drivers’ lounge up through the door on your left.”

jimz > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:35

On the flip side, back when I wrenched I had a few customers here and there who got mad that we didn’t fix a minor problem which was completely unrelated to what they brought the car in for.

I recall one guy (about 18 or 19, total spoiled Grosse Pointe brat) where his parents brought his car in for something suspension related. Might have been half-shafts or struts. SGPB comes in the next day to pick up the car and starts bitching up a storm because we didn’t fix the squealing power steering belt. Tried to explain to the little bitch that we didn’t do anything about the belt because we weren’t asked to and it wasn’t on the work order (if we had spent time fixing it, legally he’s not required to pay us for it) but he wasn’t having any of it. Just nothing but a entitled, spoiled little boy throwing a temper tantrum. His mommy and daddy didn’t understand why we “fired” them as customers a short time later.

SteveLehto > jimz
05/12/2016 at 09:42

The sad part is that he treated everyone that way. Not just mechanics. We’ve all seen those poor spoiled jackasses, throwing temper tantrums in places they shouldn’t. Airports, stores, etc.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:48

If it was a Mint Metallic Green 64 Buick Skylark Convertible it would be appropriate.

Tina Belcher > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:49

Having a little fun up North? Apparently their weather has been better than ours lately!

Dan > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:51

It would be nice to see the list written out.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:59

I’ve had experiences with good mechanics and dealerships. And I’ve had experience with crooked ones. I really dislike it when I tell a story of a crooked mechanic or dealership, and someone else feels the need to chime in with a “that story doesn’t sound true, there’s no way a dealership would ever do that because of X, Y, Z, you’re just a liar perpetuating a bad stereotype.”

I can only imagine you get even worse vitriol.

SteveLehto > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
05/12/2016 at 09:59

Obviously.

Segador > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 09:59

Took my car into dealer for complimentary oil change and to repair minor front-end issue. Got it back with a list of things that needed to be done, with various hilariously-inflated prices for each item. One that stuck out was “new oil pan gasket- leaking” for $900. I declined their services and left.

Take it home, jack it up, and take a look at the oil pan. Every single bolt was 1/2-2 full rotations loose. Took 5 minutes to tighten them, no more leaking.

I have no idea if they loosened them or if they were just too lazy to take 2 minutes to tighten them, but I found it hilarious.

SteveLehto > Dan
05/12/2016 at 09:59

It is - in the pieces I listed.

Kyree S. Williams > TheRealBicycleBuck
05/12/2016 at 10:00

As a counterexample, my mechanic is perfectly willing to let me watch him work on my car and explain what he’s doing. But he’s an old grade-school friend who recently opened a shop that specializes in VAG products. I take my Volkswagen there for routine maintenance and any non-warranty repairs.

Then again, a lot of shops—especially dealership service departments—do not allow customers in the service bays for liability purposes. The most they could do is stare through the shop window in the customer lounge.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 10:00

That and death threats. Yes, I hear it all.

EL_ULY > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:02

#buzzfeed :]

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:06

Now that I’ve heard your podcast, I’d like to chime in with my own story.

There’s a dealership here in Houston that some people (including myself) call “Hustlin’ Shit Ford” because it sounds similar to the real name AND they are quite crooked.

I had a Ford Focus which had a bad problem with a warped condenser. Result is that it would dump water into the passenger foot-well. I didn’t know it at the time, but Ford actually had a TSB on this issue. Hustlin’ Shit Ford told me that it was due to a different reason altogether, and charged me $1200 for the fix. Except, as you would have guessed it, the problem persisted after I got the car back. So I took the car back to the dealership, wherein they claimed that something ELSE went wrong and it just happened to have the same symptoms, and it’s all a coincidence! But the new fix would also cost me $1200. And of course, it came with the caveat that the water may still leak into the foot-well because SOMETHING ELSE might go wrong.

I wish I would have taken the time to see a lawyer in retrospect, but I was younger and dumber (and you weren’t writing these columns back then). But I did find a good trustworthy mechanic in Houston, so I had that going for me.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:06

“How dare you claim we’re crooked! I’m going to kill you!”

Nibby > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:07

How many death threats did you get making this podcast?

EvilSuperMonkey > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:07

It must take a special kind of stupid to utter death threats to a lawyer.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 10:08

There is a certain irony to it, yes.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:08

I’ve had experiences with a 1962 Buick as well ;-) was my first car.... still hate it. It couldn’t keep head gaskets in it. On top of that, it had English-level electronics.

SteveLehto > Nibby
05/12/2016 at 10:08

Making it, zero. But in response to the pieces I mentioned I got 2 or 3. I wouldn’t be surprised if I got a couple from this piece as well.

SteveLehto > EvilSuperMonkey
05/12/2016 at 10:09

You’ve answered your own question.

R Henry > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:11

Not sure about the podcast format. I come here to read stories. When I want to listen, I go to radio.

Any chance the transcript can be posted too?

SteveLehto > R Henry
05/12/2016 at 10:14

RADIO?! And people make fun of ME because they say I am “old.”

However, the information in the podcast/video is in the three articles I linked in the piece. The difference is that in the podcast you can hear it - in the pieces you can read it.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 10:15

What was the transmission? I seem to recall that some of those early Buicks had some really bad autos.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:19

I’ve listened to your podcast and I think you’re making statements that should be couched. Too often people take what you’re saying as gospel, then I get a phone call from people who’ve heard this advice - and I have to give them the reality check.

For example: damage that occurs while in a shop’s possession is not, in the State of Washington, the shop’s issue unless there is negligence.

Urambo Tauro > jimz
05/12/2016 at 10:21

That SGPB attitude sounds very much like the clueless notion that “if I spend x amount of money, the whole car should be problem-free for y amount of time”.

That’s just not how car repair works. Whatever’s been fixed should last a while, sure. But it’s anybody’s guess as to what or when the next failure is going to be.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 10:25

I’m not sure about how couched I have to make it. I start by saying I am in MICH and several times each podcast (like this one) I will say, “That’s the law in MICH - and other states might have this law.”

The last thing I want to do is turn a 20 minute podcast into an hour long run of legalese.

I’m not going to put a disclaimer after each sentence. It would make the show unlistenable. And would defeat my purpose.

Are you really saying that the shop can just tell you “Your car is now damaged. It wasn’t damaged when you brought it in. But, since you can’t prove we were negligent (since we won’t tell you what happened to your car) you have no case?” Sounds like you need to talk to some lawmakers.

Derel1cte > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:26

It seems like mechanics should be able to stop you from leaving. Just because the car happened to get to the shop doesn’t mean it won’t kill someone because the owner is and idiot and/or cheapskate:

Kinja'd!!!

SteveLehto > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 10:28

You’d have to deputize the mechanics then. Give them some kind of legal authority. Oh, and you’d need a law to do that.

Which would be crazy.

ronmler3 > EvilSuperMonkey
05/12/2016 at 10:28

It doesn’t matter who one’s making them to, especially if one’s doing it anonymously....

Auto Guy > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:30

Ah, yes, the gonkulator! My favorite! Those repairs are usually sold to customers along with blinker fluid.

Kinja'd!!!

General Mayhem > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 10:31

If I had a nickle for every time I’ve seen that... *smh*...

Dake > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 10:33

That’s not the mechanic’s job though. Call the cops if it’s really such a major safety issue.

SteveLehto > Auto Guy
05/12/2016 at 10:33

It’s spelled with a “c”?! I’ve been misspelling it in my mind all these years!

gatorbait28 > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:34

In reference to the “can’t let you leave” scam, what is the solution if the car really is unsafe to be driven? Just have it towed somewhere else if the owner chooses to not have it repaired at the first place? I was at a tire shop a couple years ago and someone brought in a van to get some work done. After taking a look at the van, the mechanic came back and said it needed a lot of work, including repairing a leak in the gas tank. He said something about it being unsafe to drive but I don’t think he went as far as to say he wouldn’t let them leave. Just wondering what the options are when the car is truly unsafe to be driven off the lot. If the owner chooses to leave, the mechanic would not be held responsible if something bad happens once they are gone correct? Maybe have the person sign a COA statement that says the car has been deemed unsafe and that the owner releases the mechanic of all liability.

10 cc's of Nitrous - STAT! > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:35

Yeah, the Buick Dynaflow. It’s kind of an early predecessor of the CVT transmission. It was a two speed transmission that did most of its “shifting” via a continuously variable pitch torque converter. A really strong transmission, but people didn’t like them because they were designed to be the pinnacle of smooth shifting and sacrificed a lot of acceleration for this.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:36

I just remembered, my favorite scam! “Favorite”, because it was so easy to spot. My Ford Focus had a lifetime engine air filter. It was a sealed unit that was not normally serviceable (or readily accessible). Yes, seriously, Ford installed a non-serviceable ENGINE air filter (supposed to last 150,000 miles, but my experience was that by 80k miles, it was done).

Anyways, I’ve had more than a few quick change lube places tell me I had to replace my engine air filter, then show me a very dirty air filter. I have no idea where they got the air filter from, but it certainly wasn’t my car. Depending on how much time I had, I’d either just decline ALL service, or ask to see where they pulled it from to watch them sweat a little.

SteveLehto > gatorbait28
05/12/2016 at 10:39

I would suggest that the mechanic write up an estimate or whatever they give the customer and simply write something on it to make it clear they were warned. But the odds of it actually happening are qutie slim - after all, the car made it in safely.

Quade > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 10:41

It seems like mechanics should be able to stop you from leaving.

Yeah, lets give up our freedom because some high-school drop-out wants to keep me from driving home. Something like this is the definition of “conflict of interest”.

I’d rather the mechanic take pics and simply call the cops with the license plate. Not that the cops will care.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 10:42

I had a similar problem with my Explorer. That year, some of them have trans dipsticks and some do not. Most places didn’t bother to look and would say they checked everything and I could watch and see that they have not even looked at the trans stick. When I asked, they’d say “Your truck doesn’t have one.” I’ve gotten out and pointed it to them.

It’s fun to see the confused look on the face of a kid who can only do what a computer or a boss tells him to do.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:43

It’s sad to hear that these things still happen, and that the public has to be on the defensive about car repair.

A few months ago, I took it upon myself to replace my car’s failed 172,000-mile water pump, and decided to add on some other items for preventative maintenance. Directly behind the water pump is the timing cover, so I took the opportunity to install a new timing cover gasket and front seal, as well as a new crank damper and timing chain set. I didn’t need to replace them, but they were original and I didn’t want to have to remove a brand new water pump to address them when they did fail.

If I had taken my car to a shop, or better yet- if this had been someone else’s car that I was working on, this would have run the bill up quite a bit. And despite it being a good idea to take care of those other items, a defensive owner might insist that only the faulty water pump should be replaced. It can be hard for the average consumer to tell the difference between a rip-off and good advice.

MaxWedge > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 10:44

I’ve seen this situation many times over the years. While it may be true that the vehicle made it into the shop under its own power, and you want to leave without having repairs performed, I leave no paper trail that I ever touched it, including an estimate for the repairs. Kill yourself on your own time.

Quade > R Henry
05/12/2016 at 10:44

I have to agree. Spoken words are simply not an efficient medium for information transfer.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro
05/12/2016 at 10:47

And I always tell people to ask around and find a mechanic that other people trust and recommend. The same way we love to badmouth the ones who rip us off (in any field) we also love to promote the ones who do good work.

And, knowing cars, what you did would have made sense for the average consumer. But how does the consumer know - if they know nothing of cars?

pignsteak > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 10:47

Fellow Houstonian here - took me about 5 minutes to figure out which dealer you were talking about, and then realized I had a similar experience with them! They were only charging $500-700 back then, though (on a 2002 Honda Accord.)

As for mechanics, I currently use AA Auto Care on Shepherd and love them. I’ll probably keep using them even after I move to Katy. Which mechanic did you find?

ateamfan42 > Segador
05/12/2016 at 10:49

Sounds like they found a good way to generate business for themselves. “Let’s create a bunch of leaks and then get the customer to approve us ‘fixing’ them at outrageous prices.”

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:52

You hit the nail on the head. Finding a good mechanic is better than defending yourself against a bad mechanic.

Auto Guy > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 10:52

I know, right? My spelling was even worse — As a car guy I thought it was related in name to this stuff:

Kinja'd!!!

TheRealBicycleBuck > Kyree S. Williams
05/12/2016 at 10:56

Being friends with the mechanic makes a difference. The problem in diesel shops is the drivers like to stand around and chat, but the mechanics are under the gun to complete the work within the allotted time frame since the drivers will complain if the repair takes longer than the book says it should. When the complaints roll in, then the mechanics end up working unpaid overtime or just eating the extra cost. It’s a nasty business being a mechanic.

“Then again, a lot of shops—especially dealership service departments—do not allow customers in the service bays for liability purposes. The most they could do is stare through the shop window in the customer lounge.”

This is exactly how I caught the local Ford dealership screwing up. I watched as the service tech took the filthy air filter out, look at it, and then set it on the intake. He came to the waiting room later to tell me that I needed a new filter. Got it, thanks. I’ll do it on the way home.

How did they screw up? By not noting all the oil on the filter and in the air box. I discovered it when I put in the new filter at home. Turns out there was a service bulletin regarding this problem:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Date Reported MAY 01, 2013

NHTSA Reference #10053358

TSB Reference #ASI-32211

Description: FORD: ON SOME VEHICLES, THE INTAKE AIR SYSTEM COMPONENTS MAY HAVE ENGINE OIL ACCUMULATION, IN LEFT HAND VALVE COVER BAFFLE MIGRATING THROUGH FRESH AIR INTAKE OF POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATION (PCV) SYSTEM. MODELS 2011-2013 EDGE, EXPLORE

Gee, thanks guys.

After I drove it back to the dealer and pointed out the problem, they were “happy” to order the part and schedule a free service once the part came in. They even defended the technician, noting that he was the “new guy.”

ateamfan42 > Quade
05/12/2016 at 10:58

Totally agree. At some point, individuals have to be responsible for their own actions. The mechanic’s responsibility is to provide truthful diagnosis about the vehicle and offer professional advice about the best course of actions. Their responsibility does not include policing the use of cars on the public roads.

If the mechanic/shop has advised me about an unsafe condition, it is my decision as an adult if I want to have the shop fix it, tow the car somewhere else, or take the risk and drive it away. My choice, my responsibility.

jimz > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:00

“Today’s cars are the most complex, sophisticated machines ever to be placed in the hands of inexpert operators.”

- Richard Parry-Jones

Wil Haginen > pignsteak
05/12/2016 at 11:01

Bellaire Auto Center gets my vote, BUT the caveat is that I’ve not used them since I sold my Ford. For European cars, I strongly recommend “Today’s European Cars”, Tony Colca is the owner there and he’s very honest.

jimz > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:03

yeah, there’s no way some shops would abuse that ability...

oh wait, what was the topic of this podcast again?

Buckus > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 11:04

It’s the owner’s job to ensure the vehicle is safe to operate. If they decide to operate it in an unsafe mechanical condition, the owner is liable, not the mechanic who inspected the vehicle.

Buckus > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 11:06

Yeah, love it when they bring in a round air filter that has probably been in the shop since the 60's that obviously does not fit your vehicle. Especially when it has leaves and shit all over it.

Wil Haginen > pignsteak
05/12/2016 at 11:06

Another story I love to tell about Hustlin’ Shit Ford: I paid them to do a tire rotation. Not two days later, I had a flat and needed to swap in the spare. Well, wouldn’t you know it, the damn tire had rusted onto the wheel hub! So 2 days prior they took my money and performed the work. No wait, they did the opposite of that. They took my money and claimed to do the work.

ronmler3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
05/12/2016 at 11:12

$10550 on the tag, but they advertise it for $8995?

Dan > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:15

I count 8 scams between those three articles. What are the other two?

Auto Guy > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:17

Here’s an executive summary of the podcast and some likely (and historical) responses:

Steve Lehto:

Here’s a podcast I put together as a friendly service!

I’m a trained, licensed, and experienced professional in this area.

It’s based on Michigan law — so check your local ordinances.

I’ve cited my sources for handy reference.

Internet:

Steve is an idiot. This because I disagree with what he says.

If someone says it on the Interwebs, it’s automatically true. Forever. Is Epic Win for Interwebs!

We will threaten to kill Steve, because we do not like all his knowledgely-wordy-lawyer things.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Yup, gottta hand it to the Internet on that last point.

SteveLehto > Dan
05/12/2016 at 11:18

8 - 7 = 1. Not sure if I missed one. I think that the “Shop damaged your car” is duplicated in that I wrote a whole column on that one and it is one that I list in the other article.

Scooter > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:19

I was a mechanic for 15 years under salary and under commission. One of the first things I was taught by my first employer was that there was so much honest work out there you didn’t need to make stuff up, and I always found that to be the case.

However I once worked (under a commission shop) with a guy that bounced from shop to shop. He was twice my age but I didn’t think he was much of a mechanic. Some months after he moved on we discovered that he had been tossing parts behind a shelf instead of installing them. Parts like wheel cylinder rebuild kits (anyone remember those?), belts and other stuff. Blew me away.

It has always been my experience that the dishonest mechanic is uncommon, but then that could have been due to the mechanics I worked with. Most of the people I knew (in independant shops) took pride in their work and wanted to get the job right the first time. The worst thing in your professional life was to have a come-back job, I always looked at that as a failure.

OK, interesting story. Once I was doing a scope check on a Capri V6 running the engine at 2500 RPM for a cylinder balance test. Suddenly it just stopped running. The nylon timing gear had shattered (common on high mileage Capris) and I had to call the customer with the bad news. Don’t think that wasn’t a long difficult conversation. In the end he came to understand the situation and had us repair the car. By the time he came to pick it up he came to realize that if it hadn’t happened in the shop it likely would have happened during his long commute and that it was probably a blessing.

TheRealBicycleBuck > ronmler3
05/12/2016 at 11:19

“$10550 on the tag, but they advertise it for $8995?”

They would gladly charge you the tag price unless you prove to them they advertised it at a lower price.

SteveLehto > Auto Guy
05/12/2016 at 11:19

I may have to dedicate a podcast to this summary.

And at that point, we will have come full circle.

SteveLehto > Scooter
05/12/2016 at 11:21

I always say this is true of every profession: The few bad ones give the good ones a bad name (and trust me, I know. I am an attorney.)

Kyree S. Williams > TheRealBicycleBuck
05/12/2016 at 11:23

That Ford story is ridiculous. I’m happy I can trust my friend and his shop for all non-warranty repairs, and I also know the owner of the Volkswagen dealership where I take my car for the warranty stuff. But sometimes, you really do need to watch.

AbdulJaBartHoleMy > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 11:26

Did it have the aluminum wildcat motor? Your heads and block were probably warped.

AbdulJaBartHoleMy > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:26

Probably a 2 speed torque glide.

newgalactic > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 11:30

Did it stop? ...Breaks work.

Hirsch > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 11:35

I had a repair shop charge me for storage. Which would have been acceptable had my car actually been parked on their property. I got a ticket because it was illegally parked in a public alley outside of their fenced lot.

When I went in to pick up my car and pay the bill I saw $175 for storage. I asked them how they could charge me storage fee’s when my car wasn’t on their property. They just said that was their policy. I showed them the ticket and they said it wasn’t their problem. I refused to pay the storage fee and they refused to release my car.

I ended up calling the police and they actually arrested the shops owner.

Steve, can I get out of the Grey Zone?

SteveLehto > AbdulJaBartHoleMy
05/12/2016 at 11:48

I didn’t pop the hood.

smalleyxb122 > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
05/12/2016 at 11:49

“Is that when you shot the clerk?”

Urambo Tauro > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 11:55

The concept of a lifetime air filter is ridiculous. For decades, cars have had variable maintenance schedules, depending on whether or not your car was used for “severe duty”.

My neighbor was annoyed that his new-ish air filter had caught so much dirt/pollen/etc., and asked me what kind of filter would work better. But it’s not the filter; it’s the environment. The more airborne crap you drive through, the more it’s going to collect. And that’s better than letting it pass through into the engine.

SilverBRADo totaled his beigeslushboxmatrix > Auto Guy
05/12/2016 at 12:07

This should be a COTD. Unfortunately (both of COTD and the Interwebs in general), it isn’t an exaggeration.

SilverBRADo totaled his beigeslushboxmatrix > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 12:12

I’m going to send this to my neighbor who is a service manager for an independent shop in case he can get any tips from it.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 12:16

Just send him(?) a signed copy of your latest book gratis in appreciation of its brilliance, more like :P

jeff4066 > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 12:20

They don’t do that with mine. It would, however take 12 Torx bolts to remove mine.

jeff4066 > Derel1cte
05/12/2016 at 12:24

Holy Crap! Was the driver deaf or something? How did that not make enough noise?

jeff4066 > Wil Haginen
05/12/2016 at 12:29

I didn’t get hit that bad, but it does seem either the very young or the very old get hit the worst.

My first automatic I had ever owned started leaking fluid. When I filled it, it was fine. I was thinking gasket, but didn’t want to take much risk, since I depended on the car. A local shop showed me a pan full of dirty fluid and gear bits. I could barely scrape together the $300 for a rebuilt 350 BOP.

It wasn’t until days later it came to me that the pan on my car had been blue. The one they showed me wasn’t.

Dan > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 12:32

...I think I mentally transmuted your article into a Top 10 list.

SteveLehto > Dan
05/12/2016 at 12:41

That’s what I figured. Thanks for the note.

Prophet of hoon > AbdulJaBartHoleMy
05/12/2016 at 12:45

The wildcat motor is a different animal. they came in 300 ci and were cast iron.

It did have the 215 aluminum block that eventually became a staple of British Leyland... and they continued to have head gasket troubles due to porosity in the block. GM then BL had trouble sand casting aluminum and it was part of the reason GM sold it to BL... what is funny, at least to me, is BL’s assertion that they had “fixed” the porosity problems GM had - why funny? I have a Land Rover D2 that I replaced the head-gasket-blown 3.5 liter motor (215) with a 300 TDI.

Since I have such intimate knowledge of the little Buick - it was neat to see what BL had done to the motor (and it was quite a bit) over their 40 or so years of use.

And I do still have 2 215 Buick motors, waiting for their day of reuse to come ..... as lamp stands. Did I mention I didn’t like my Skylark? even more ironic that my ‘non-Jalop’ name is SuperBuickGuy.

Wil Haginen > Scooter
05/12/2016 at 12:46

In your experience, did you prefer the salary shops or the commission shops in terms of work conditions? And if you had to take your car in (or recommend a family member take a car in), would you recommend a commission shop or a salary shop?

QuadPole > Urambo Tauro
05/12/2016 at 12:46

Sadly, even good mechanics go bad over time. I had one that I always went to and they were a great family owned business. Then they started getting sloppy like not tightening the nuts on the intake manifold and trying to charge me for a new O2 sensor when my car started throwing the CEL light in their shop. The only reason I paid a mechanic to do a job was that I did not have the time to do the work myself in that instance.

It is less frustration to simply own another car as a spare so I can take my time to do the work myself.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 12:48

You’re thinking the switch-pitch transmission that was late 50s/early 60s. This one didn’t have that one, it was a pre-cursor to the powerglide transmission that is still built today. I also have a rare-as-hens teeth 4 speed for the 215.

The fun part of those transmissions is the shift pattern (column) was P N D L R. Thus, if you downshifted to slow down while going down a hill (a darn good idea when you have nothing but drum brakes all around) and forgot you had a 2 speed rather than a 3 speed... you would slow down, briefly, while your rear end locked up then beat you down the mountain (don’t ask how I know this). They also had those super-silly reverse threaded lug nuts (always spin the wrench towards the front of the car and always car spare lug nuts for when you didn’t).

You know how you geek on Chrysler, especially the turbines? swap Chrysler for Buick and that’s me.... I’m known elsewhere on the ‘net as SuperBuickGuy.... which is pretty funny given my hatred of my first car (since it really was a $50 POS).

jimz > Scooter
05/12/2016 at 12:57

In my (limited) experience, most times when a shop or individual starts trying to pull shady shit, it’s because their business is already suffering and they’re doing it more or less out of desperation. It’s like even in racing; I was talking with one of the Unlimited Hydroplane drivers and he made the claim that “cheaters usually end up running mid-pack at best.”

Not that it excuses anything, but it tends to show that shops/mechanics don’t set out to be rip-off artists.

Parts like wheel cylinder rebuild kits (anyone remember those?),

Many a bottle-brush hone has passed through my hands. I bet I can still do duo-servo drum brakes blindfolded.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 13:00

To your last question - yes. Washington assigns that risk to the owner unless there is clear negligence (e.g. employee steals car, car isn’t locked, or car is left outside when the owner agreed to put it inside at night).

I see I wasn’t too clear in my original comment. The comment was far less about jurisdictional differences then it was that, while listening to your podcast, I was thinking your advice falls under the more likely than not standard rather than a beyond reasonable doubt. As much as we’d like to say “it’s metal, we can figure it out” there are far too many times when there’s the list of possibilities that have to be checked off to find the culprit of the malaise. While computers have made life simpler on some levels, diagnosing an issue of car’s fault has become infinitely more complex.

I think that the biggest issue that I solve with my clients is telling them to be utterly open and honest in all their dealings with the clients and to write down, at the time they said it, what they said to their customer. It’s okay for them to say “I don’t know what the problem is, but my experience says x.” Then to follow that up with “if it doesn’t work, you will be responsible for the costs.” Legally that’s fair - after all don’t we as lawyers say “we cannot guarantee results, but we will tell you ever decision point so you won’t be surprised.” Disappointed, sure, but never surprised. The same advice goes to my client’s shops.

And after all those words, I can now articulate what my issue is with the pod cast. What I heard was that cars are easy to fix and if they’re not, it’s the mechanic’s fault.... am I being unfair in that?

Prophet of hoon > 10 cc's of Nitrous - STAT!
05/12/2016 at 13:02

dynaflow was done by the early 60s, the Skylark used the later transmission... the super turbine (which is much the same internally as a power glide)

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 13:03

you should listen to them - they sound like a 318

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 13:13

I thought it was “99% of attorneys give the other 1% a bad name.”

Source: my attorney father.

CarsCarroCar > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 13:22

Hi Steve, thanks for your articles. Just a couple of questions/clarifications: in reference to the “fix, fail, repeat” idea, the Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Act only appears to mention unnecessary repairs in Sec. 257.1322, where it allows the state to take action against the shop’s license, not the consumer, and only after an administrative hearing. Is that what you meant by against the law? And with regard to the shop’s liability in the “I can’t let you leave” situations, I agree 100% on the criminal liability. But what is to prevent a consumer from suing a shop civilly? Mechanic says brakes need to be replaced/repaired, but the consumer refuses the repair. As consumer leaves shop, they get in a serious accident because the brakes did not work. Insurance company/family of the consumer sue shop. Are you just saying they wouldn’t be successful? Would a good practice be to have the consumer sign a waiver of some sort? Thanks!

Kris > Scooter
05/12/2016 at 13:25

Working in repair shops as a technician, the biggest issue I see is bad communication- tech to service writer, service writer to customer and so forth. Add in various levels of understanding or confusion and I’ve seen it contribute to a sense of being ripped off when it definelty wasn’t the case. Service writer interprets my recommendations for best reliability as NEEDED repairs right NOW and customer can’t help but feel like being put in a corner and forced to pay much more than expected or what his “mechanic” friend says it should cost.

Communication is probably a top reason why people feel more comfortable with small one man shops. They're dealing directly with the mechanic and get the most accurate description of what's wrong and what their options are.

Ross Kraz > SteveLehto
05/12/2016 at 13:26

So you mention that if a mechanic says “I can’t let you leave” that it could reach a point where you call the cops and get them to come to the shop. If at that point, the cops look at your car and find things that wouldn’t pass an inspection, can they give you citations?

I’m guessing if you have a light out or an illegal modification they could easily do that, but I’m more talking about maintenance items. I’m not really familiar with inspections because we don’t have them where I live, but could they give you a ticket for really worn brakes, like when the rotor is almost completely gone?

SteveLehto > CarsCarroCar
05/12/2016 at 13:38

See section 1336.

That is one of the arguments - that they will get sued. But that is civil. And the best way around that would be to put the unsafeness in writing and hand it to the customer.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 13:40

It’s a matter of interpretation I suppose. I would never suggest that auto mechanics (the thing, not the people) is an exact science. It is an artform on some level so there will be gray areas.

But many of the ripoffs I encounter are so far beyond the pale that gray is nowhere to be seen.

SteveLehto > Ross Kraz
05/12/2016 at 13:41

I am not sure because we don’t have inspections here. But that is a whole different question: At that point it is the police saying you can’t drive legally.

AbdulJaBartHoleMy > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 13:46

Yeah, I have a hate-love relationship with my 1965 Barracuda.

AbdulJaBartHoleMy > Prophet of hoon
05/12/2016 at 13:50

I have worked on what must have been a ‘63 Skylark with a wildcat 215. Cool car. Couldn’t believe how well the electric windows functioned at their age. Those 60's Skylark are nice cars. Good lines.

Smokin Jay > Urambo Tauro
05/12/2016 at 13:55

And that’s why communication is so important. When I have to take my car to the local mechanic I tell them exactly what my problem is. However since we have a good relationship they will typically look over my car to make sure whatever repairs/mods I’ve done to it are acceptable and sustainable. On the occasions that they find something that isn’t right totally unrelated to what I brought the car in for they will call me and tell me. Or if it’s of negligible importance (or just a simple repair) they’ll tell me when I pick the car up so I can fix it later. We have an understanding that I work on my car but they’re the experts and I want their opinion. On everything. Because they’re professionals and highly competent. The flip side is it’s unreasonable to expect someone who has your car for a few hours to be able to scope out every potential point of failure. You have to have reasonable expectations. It’s like just because you get a yearly physical or have a knee replacement surgery you don’t expect your doctor to know you’ll develop cancer 6 months from when they see you.